Your questions answered: Marie Veronique Edition
Marie-Veronique Nadeau, owner and founder of the clean-clinical skincare line Marie Veronique, answered some in-depth questions about popular skincare ingredients, as well as a few important things to keep in mind when it comes to your skins health. Soak up some of her knowledge below!
As the founder and creator of Marie Veronique, can you tell us a little bit about your history in the industry, your journey, and what a typical day looks like for you?
My history in the industry goes back about 12 or 13 years now. I started out in my kitchen (I know, everybody says that but in my case it is true!), making products for myself that would be helpful for my rosacea. Then I taught some classes on rosacea at Elephant Pharmacy (now defunct, a victim of the last recession) and everyone wanted a sunscreen that was a step up from the diaper rash cream I was recommending to everyone because it was just zinc oxide—but very opaque. Everyone wearing it would have had to look like Marcel Marceau, who come to think of it must have very good skin—but they still didn’t want to wear it in public. Anyway, I made a zinc oxide only sunscreen that people were willing to wear and Marie Veronique was launched! -- although I didn’t realize it myself until after I’d made a few other products that began selling out of Elephant Pharmacy, where I worked, to the local population. The journey from this very organic beginning to a thriving business was the usual story of a combination of successes, set-backs and hard work — and then I got really, really lucky in meeting the right people with business know-how who also knew how to assemble a team that could take the business from strength to strength. It’s so inspiring to see how everyone is really pulling together in these difficult times.
A typical day for me isn’t too much different than it was pre-corona; checking in with the team, following up on issues re existing products (sourcing is a hot topic right now), R&D for some new products we are working on, and writing on topics of interest, because arming consumers with good information is so critical right now. So thank you for your great questions!
Since we started our microbiome research early we are already way ahead of the curve with respect to how the skin care industry can still be relevant in a new future, when the planet’s microbiome is calling the shots. It’s a challenging time for us humans, but I am happy to see the adjustments we are making as a species. It’s very hopeful.
I think there is a misconception about what "clean" means and the ingredients that can go into a product with this label. Can you explain what it takes for a product or skincare line to be considered "clean clinical"?
“Clean” is such a loaded term. It’s never clearly defined, yet people take it to mean any number of things, from “non-toxic,” whatever that means, to “all-natural”—whatever THAT means. Clean clinical probably means that the product does not contain the ingredients, mostly synthetic, that have come to be associated with causing either irritation, like parabens or phenoxyethanol, or ingredients that penetrate the epidermal barrier, get into the bloodstream and may present a health risk. For example, oxybenzone in sunscreen shows up in the urine of 88% of Americans and is an endocrine disrupter. Kids should not use it.
I believe the term “clean” should also address skin microbiome balance. Ingredients that disrupt the natural balance of the skin’s microrganisms, eg, benzoyl peroxide that destroys P. acnes but photosensitizes skin and accelerates aging, should not be considered clean. Clean does not mean wholesale slaughter of mocroorganisms but rather maintaining the right balance so we enlist the aid of the microorganisms that repel pathogenic attack, thus keeping skin healthy. A healthy skin depends on a healthy barrier. “Clean” needs to take on an entirely new meaning in the age of corona.
We know by now the importance of incorporating a Vitamin C into our routine. Can you explain from a scientific perspective exactly what it's doing for us and your opinion of its importance?
When used topically, Vitamin C serum:
- Builds resistance to and counteracts UV-induced oxidative stress by acting as an antioxidant.
- Prevents collagen degradation by inhibiting the increase of matrix metalloproteinase-1 (MMP-1) in the dermal fibroblast after UVA irradiation. The combination of vitamin E, vitamin C, and ferulic acid’s antioxidant effects are much better than the use of vitamin C alone. (Check-out Marie Veronique’s Vitamin C+E+Ferulic Serum here!)
- Maintains integrity of the skin barrier by enhancing the late differentiation of keratinocytes, thus maintaining the integrity of the entire cuticle. This is an important prerequisite for the integrity of the skin barrier, ensuring the function of the skin barrier and preventing skin water loss, which in turn can lead to skin disorders.
- Ascorbic acid is required for hydroxylation of proline in fibroblasts—hydroxyproline stabilizes the collagen triple helical structure. The presence of ascorbic acid is a necessary first step in collagen production—no Vitamin C, no collagen.
- Tyrosine and L-dopa are oxidized to melanin by tyrosinase, which initiates melanogenesis. The role of Vitamin C in inhibiting melanogenesis is very weak though, and it does not inhibit tyrosinase activity as previously thought. However, the combination of C and E does inhibit melanocyte production to some extent, though the combination of C and E is significantly more effective than C alone.
You can infer from all this that Vitamin C is very important for preventing skin damage and promoting skin health. A well-formulated serum (never a powder) should be applied topically every day, but for real benefits always use the combination C and E.
What is our "microflora" and "microbiome"? How can we properly take care of them and how important of a role do these two things play in the overall health of our skin?
Microflora is all the microorganisms that live on our skin in the microbiome. The consist of bacteria, mites and viruses. In the human holobiont, the term that describes species living together as a single entity, literally the interaction of the microbiome and its host, human cells are outnumbered 10 fold by bacteria and 100 fold by viruses. The human microbiome contains about 38 trillion bacteria—and about 380 trillion viruses.
Taking care of the skin’s microbiome means first respect it. Think of it as a collective of different entities who all play a role in ensuring the health of their host (us). Even the ones we have been taught to regard as undesirable “germs” have a role to play. We need to think in terms of microbial balance rather than an “us against them” scenario.
Who can benefit from a retinol? How does your retinol differ from others?
Slowing the aging process: Pretty much everybody over age thirty can benefit from its ability to repair photodamage, and even reverse damage that has already been done. Retinol also thins the epidermis and thickens dermis, making it act and look more like young skin. Aging skin is characterized by a thick epidermis and a thin dermis. Retinol’s main function is to signal cells, and two important messages it sends to fibroblasts make all the difference in terms of enhancing collagen production. Retinol: 1) inhibits MMPs (matrix metalloproteinases) which signals cells to break down collagen and 2) sends a message to the cells to make more collagen. Retinol is significantly better at regulating healthy collagen building and breakdown than [invasive techniques that signal cells to make more collagen because they are wounded—as in microdermabrasion.]
Anti-acne: Teenagers struggling with acne—retinol regulates sebum production. People with adult acne benefit two ways because retinol also aids with age delay while it is clearing up skin. In fact retinol first came to be used as an age delay method when it was noted that people on retinol for acne had younger-looking, smoother skin with fewer wrinkles.
Anti-inflammatory: Contrary to a commonly-held belief retinol is actually anti-inflammatory—the redness that sometimes occurs is due to facial retinization and not because one is “allergic” to it. Persistent and consistent use will take care of irritation. It doesn’t take much retinol to get good skin benefits so using it one or two days a week is better than giving up on it. You will still get results—you just have to wait longer. Gradually your skin will adjust and you can use it every night, or every other night.
Skin disorders: It normalizes skin cell development, so along with being anti-inflammatory it is definitely a go-to for any type of dermatitis and even rosacea.
Our retinol is different in two important ways: 1) the retinol is encapsulated which inhibits degradation while it is sitting in the bottle. 2) The retinol serum also contains Vitamin C. A and C actually work together to promote healthy collagen production. Vitamin A sends the message to the cell to make more collagen, which the cell can do as long as ascorbic acid is present. Remember the mantra, no Vitamin C, no collagen. So it makes sense to include ascorbic acid in the serum, as it is the rate limiting step when it comes to making collagen. A and C are a synergistic team.
Pre and Probiotics are becoming more frequently talked about in the skincare community. What is the benefit in applying them onto our skin?
Pre biotics are the saccharides that feed the probiotics, which are the bacteria that maintain microbiome balance and health. The good ones, like Lactobacillus cassei that’s good for acne conditions and Streptococcus thermophilus, which helps with ceramide production, are wonderful little skin helpers. Many of these bacteria are important for maintaining good barrier protection. They act as your skin’s immune system, prepared to battle incoming pathogenic invaders.
Your products are always our go-to for clients who are dealing with problematic/acne-prone skin types. How did you come up with formulations that are effective in combating this?
The most important thing in formulation is to go back to “first causes.” In the case of teenage/hormonal acne, a common culprit is sebum overproduction. Sebum gets clogged in the pores, P. acnes feeds on the sebum and starts to multiply like crazy, then other opportunistic bacteria (Staphyloccus aureas is a popular one) crowd in and infection sets in, pulling in white cells to fight it. All that action results in pimples, breakouts and so on. But to resolve the issue go back to the original causes—control sebum production via retinol, break up congestion with oils, limit P. acnes and S. aureus colonization with tea tree oil. It’s a lot more complicated than that but you get the general idea.
Over all it’s just a matter of figuring out what nature needs to keep skin healthy and then supplying what’s missing. Supplying certain micronutrients that are commonly missing, like B vitamins and zinc, can also make a big difference with acne. And retinol and Vitamin C help with everything so don’t be shy about using them, no matter what the skin issue is.
From a scientific perspective, what are your thoughts on the addition of essential oils in skincare products?
Well, I am a big fan of tea tree oil. There are certain oils you can use for therapeutic reasons, like tea tree oil and curcuma longa (it is anti-inflammatory) but they need to be used judiciously. And you certainly never use EOs to make something “smell nice.” Those days are over folks. Why? Because they can disrupt the balance of your microbiome.
EO use should also be sparing because many people are allergic to EOs. It can be quite problematic as the rate of contact dermatitis is very high with EOs but reacting right away actually presents an easy fix-- you just stop. What’s more difficult is skin that gets sensitized over time. Someone may suddenly react to a product she’s been using for years, so she’s not likely to make the connection between contact and reaction right away, and in the meantime the sensitization continues. Overuse of some EOs, particularly the citrus oils, can lead to photosensitization, which you really don’t want. The EOs we use in our skin care, when we use them, are for therapeutic use only. Essential oils are volatile organic compounds after all, and you really want to be careful.
We see a good amount of clients come in that are trying to heal their rosacea. What have you found to be the best thing for this?
The main instigator of rosacea is too much sun exposure, and of course we see that quite a bit in men who refuse to wear sunscreen. Wearing a zinc oxide sunscreen every day is the one best thing you can do for rosacea. It blocks harmful UV rays that cause erythema. If you have a problem with persistent redness you can even wear your zinc oxide only sunscreen at night. ZnO is a wonderful anti-inflammatory. Here’s my chance to go back to the beginning of your questions and advise people with rosacea to wear diaper rash cream—like Desitin—at night. Some things never change—EXCEPT we now have a good sunscreen they can wear by day.
Other: Vitamin C serum daily to further prevent UV damage (our Vitamins C+E+Ferulic Serum is best because it boosts sun protection), and retinol serum at night because it is a great anti-inflammatory. Niacinamide is anti-inflammatory as well, so using Soothing B3 Serum day and night really helps many people. Improving barrier function is also a good idea, as people with rosacea all have impaired barrier function. Barrier Restore Serum day and night helps to repair that weakened barrier layer.
Also, take antioxidants daily. A good one for rosacea folks is astaxanthin-- it’s the one that turns flamingoes pink. This carotenoid helps build up tolerance to the sun, whether you are human or a flamingo.
A special thank you to Marie for taking the time to answer all of our questions! We hope that those of you reading this were able to learn something new. :)
Warmly,
Team Toccare